+- Australian Ham Radio Discussion Forum ( AHRDF ) (https://www.ahrdf.net/forum)
+-- Forum: GENERAL (https://www.ahrdf.net/forum/forum-29.html)
+--- Forum: Regulatory, Licencing & Exams (https://www.ahrdf.net/forum/forum-15.html)
+--- Thread: Any word on this yet? (/thread-27.html)
Any word on this yet? - VK4SMJ - 14-09-2016
Some may remember on the old forum there was a post about the WIA's proposal they submitted to the ACMA, there was a link inside one of the messages in that post that listed the WIA's detailed proposal. Here is the link :-
wia.org.au news item
As this effects us all, and is of fundamental importance, any update or information would be great.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK5ZLR - 14-09-2016
The ACMA is not entirely unresponsive, but they move at a glacial pace, especially when there is no money in it for them.
I expect a considerable proportion of the amateur community will be pushing up daisies before there is a result on this.
My advice ....don't hold yer breath.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4ADC - 14-09-2016
Maybe ACMA is slow to move but remember that any changes requiring legislation "updates" take a while to get passed...
At least part of that original discussion has had further mentions:
http://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2016/20160806-1/index.php
Doug VK4ADC
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK2ZRH - 14-09-2016
Hi Stephen,
I've been doing a series of items each week recently on the VK1WIA Sunday broadcasts, and explained a bit about the processes just to get a new band allocation. You can download both the text and the audio from the WIA website. I recommend you check out the one for 28 August and also for 4 September.
There will be a number of public consultation sessions over the next 3-6 months concerning the new radiocommunications bill (which eventually becomes an Act), as well as updating of the Australian Radiofrequency Spectrum Plan. Every stakeholder with an interest in the spectrum gets to have a say (Uncle Tom Cobley and all)! That means you, too (if you so wish).
As you can appreciate from the foregoing, updating the licence conditions just in relation to frequency bands is going to be something of a torturous process. For the time being, follow the weekly broadcasts. From time to time, news items will be posted on the WIA website. For members, you'll get an email notification when web news gets posted.
Hang in there. Remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. Even the longest journey begins with a single step. Add other platitudes you think appropriate.
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
Member of the WIA Spectrum Strategy Committee (which has carriage of the licence conditions submission).
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4SMJ - 17-09-2016
Thanks for the information Roger.
I listened to the 2 podcast's you suggested, excellent stuff. Was quite interesting.
It seems to me the theme is, something is going to happen, we are not sure what exactly, and have no idea when but it will happen eventually. I assume this is in a scale of years.
The reason I asked, was mainly, I am/was about to upgrade, and i was hoping I would not have to go to the expense of upgrading if they were about to buff the foundation licence a tad. The foundation licence, whilst restrictive, kind of meets what I need in this hobby. The power restriction and the fact you have an F in your call sign, seems to be the main impediment, If you know what I mean. So I rarely bother giving A call these days, and am happy to be a listener only. I know if I had a F less call, and more power it would be a more pleasant experience being a HAM in Australia.
But the expense of actually upgrading, and it is an expense, and the fact of "is it even worth it", is the thing holding me back from upgrading.
In fact has been since i got the F call some years ago. Upgrading to the standard licence, which is/was my current thoughts, doesn't really seem worth it. Other than 100watts on HF, a few extra bands and the more important, no F in your call sign, there isnt much going for it, when you think of the expense and effort involved.
Hmmm that kinda became a rant, sorry about that. But the reason I asked in the original post above, was for selfish reason
I was hoping to get away without any more expense. I have to admit I am debating if I will renew my licence in a few months, I can listen for free.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK2ZRH - 17-09-2016
Hi Stephen,
In the VK1WIA broadcast this week (18 Sept), I cover the WIA's proposals for future Foundation licence conditions. Here's the summary:
Quote:Proposed changes to Foundation licence conditions were set down as Priority 2 in the submission.Read the text or get the podcast here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.wia.org.au/members/broadcast/wianews/">http://www.wia.org.au/members/broadcast/wianews/</a><!-- m -->
Six key issues are addressed in the submission. These are:
- Use of digital modes
- Access to more bands
- Increased power
- Relaxation of the restriction to commercially made rigs
- More permitted bandwidths, and
- A review of the Foundation callsign
Yes, the WIA advocates a bunch of things to ". . . buff the foundation licence a tad."
None of this will 'boost' the Foundation licence conditions into the realm of the Standard licence. The structural differences between each licence grade need to be preserved to meet the requirement of 'incentive to upgrade'. The underlying principle in the case of updating the Foundation licence conditions is to reduce the impediments Foundation licensees face in gaining richer experiences (and broader/richer learning experiences) in communications across the spectrum and with modern technologies. It also makes the Foundation licence more attractive, because there's "more to see and do".
Little of what is proposed for FLs offers insurmountable hurdles for the ACMA. But, that said, whatever issues arise will need to be addressed and worked through. Introduction of the new radiocommuncations act will go ahead as the Department of Communications has planned. The licence conditions are 'subordinate legislation' and don't face the same processes; one of the objects of creating a new radcom act was to make the creation of licence conditions, and other subordinate legislation, much easier and more flexible and thus readily adaptable as markets and conditions change. Putting a time on how long new licence conditions will take to create would be entirely speculative. It would be inadvisable to hold your breath while it happens, but you could reasonably expect it will be finished before the next World Radio Conference . . . :roll:
It's worth renewing your licence in the meantime. It would even be worth upgrading . . . and "surfing the wave" of change when it rolls through.
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK5PW - 18-09-2016
I think the Foundation licences have enough already , why would they want to upgrade with the future proposals.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK2ZRH - 18-09-2016
The WIA submission proposes increasing privileges (reducing barriers) for the Standard and Advanced licence grades, too. The principle is to preserve the structural differences between the licence grades and thus 'incentive' to upgrade.
The general objective is for the licence conditions to "move with the times and the 'marketplace' " so as to continue to attract newcomers. Germany has suffered a precipitative loss in amateur licensees over recent years and there is no entry-level licence there (yet - DARC is working on that). In VK, interest in the Foundation licence has stalled. Not so in the UK, where their Foundation licensees have enjoyed access to 15 bands, digital modes and DIY for many years.
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4BLP - 18-09-2016
FWIW, the 2 key things I support for F calls to get is a slight boost in power and digital modes.
Opening up digital modes I believe offers those outside of AR an incentive become an AR operator as part of their current hobbies, i.e. model rocketry and others.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4WDM - 19-09-2016
Quote:Other than 100watts on HF, a few extra bands and the more important, no F in your call sign, there isn't much going for it, when you think of the expense and effort involved.
I think you are selling the upgrade a bit short! With a standard license you get access to 20m, the premier DX band and with 100w there are plenty of contacts to be had all over the world. You also have access to a heap of digital modes too many of which are very popular and very efficient and there is heaps of activity - 2 pages in my log book just today!
Expense? Older 100w rigs are not that expensive and wire antennas can be made for just a few dollars.
I don't think I have heard anyone say that the effort in upgrading from foundation to standard was not worth it.
73
Wayne VK4WDM
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4SMJ - 20-09-2016
I think I'm becoming a bit of a fan for these podcasts. That link you posted Roger, I decided to listen to them all, great stuff.
I have to say, the effort the WIA are going too in regard to the licence conditions submissions, to the ACMA is pretty impressive. I hope it bares fruit after all the effort.
When I said "the expense of actually upgrading", I wasn't actually meaning the expense of radio gear as such, although of course that can be very expensive, all those shiny radios and things :mrgreen: I actually meant the licence costs.
It was over $200 to obtain my foundation licence, that was with a vanity call. To upgrade to standard, it will cost $70 for the theory exam, $70 for the rules and regs exam, I've already done the practical exam as part of the foundation so there is a saving of $65. Then it's $76 for the actual licence, then another $20 odd for a vanity call again. I think it's $22 for that? I cant remember now, but that is quite an expense. I pay that even if I fail of course, well, except the licence fee and vanity. Thats what I meant when I said "is it even worth it". This and what I gain doing the standard is what i'm baulking at to upgrade.
Which brings me to the restrictions on amateur licences in Australia.
Having read the WIA submission in my link in my OP, it made me wonder why the government of OZ, restricts us so much as compared to OS. The foundation is a watered down version of an entry level licence. Why is a pome foundation licence so unrestricted compared to AUS?, also, guess how much that licence costs.
Here is why I think, the English foundation licence is thriving.
Massive allocation, doesn’t cost a lot, digital(this was a silly oversight from the start), can build stuff(I cant even wire up a mic to use on a radio), and no stand out call sign(will be needed if they give digital to OZ F call). Plus 10 watts in tiny England with UHF/VHF repeaters everywhere is fine(they started with 3 watts for the F call here).
But why is our standard licence so restricted and watered down as compared to OS. The pom foundation gets more frequency allocation than our standard licence! The upgrade carrot in UK is power.
I've been told, "why do the standard exam, may as well do the full licence, the exams are nearly the same" a few times now by some people. Now if this is even nearly true, why then is the standard licence allowance so restricted? It doesn’t make sense. Why have a standard licence at all if the exams are near in skill level required? Why not just have an entry level and a full licence level?
I'm not asking for massive power for the foundation, like 1500watts the US technical has. Or even the frequency allocation the UK foundation gets. Just a reasonable buff, to make it more attractive. It's proven by the UK foundation licence, that if you package it right they will come.
I will be renewing my licence, I'm still trying to talk the cheese and kisses into the expense of an upgrade though. She gives me heaps about not talking to anyone much any more, and whats the point of having radios. Well she is female, so I dont blame her for not knowing the love of radios
She laughs when I run outside to lower my dipole strung between two iron bark trees, when a wind comes up, or emptying the bucket full of bricks i have on a pulley system after rain, that keeps the dipole nice and taught. I just smile and go into my radio room and turn a radio on extra loud to drown out the drone.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK5ZLR - 20-09-2016
I sympathise.
The problems outlined in Stephens posts pretty much summaise what needs fixing with the Fcall & upgrade path. The very high cost, the excessive retrictions, the incompatability of the 7 letter call etc.
Despite the dire forebodings of the less enlightened, the ionosphere hasn't imploded since the introduction of the Fcall. Now it''s time to drag the Fcall, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. :!:
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK3ALB - 20-09-2016
The talk of power limits and band access is interesting but I fear it's already set in stone. We have three license classes that could become very close in terms of privileges. You would have to ask why bother with the three classes if they are so similar.
I would be in favor of granting power limits against some natural and obvious limits. That is, you go to the shop and almost every radio you buy (yes I know there are a couple of exceptions) is limited to 100W output. Wouldn't it make sense to set the foundation limit to 100W and be done with it? We don't have enough inspectors to go about pinching operators for using more that 10W (I think the number is quite small) and it would stop grumpy old men from complaining "There's no way he's using 10 watts!".
Yes they have to remember digital modes need less power but please, we're not dealing with imbeciles I think most adults understand simple concepts.
Allow standard operators 400W from a commercial amplifier (no home brew as the technical qualification is arguably insufficient) as long as they demonstrate proficiency in the art of EMR compliance - somebody should be smart enough to prepare an assessment for that.
Advanced get their 400W (commercial or home brew) but allow them more if they demonstrate proficiency in the art of EMR compliance.
I'm an opinionated ham so I don't need to work out all the details but that structure seems reasonable.
Get rid of the four letter call is a great idea. A prefix like VL3AAA or similar. Again, some smart person should be able to work it out.
Band privileges for foundation operators are probably where I diverge from what most are thinking. I would say no voice modes for any additional bands beyond the current 80, 40, 15, 10, 2 & 70cm but digital modes for all permitted bands. I think 23cm and 13cm should be permitted and the bands would benefit from more activity. Too restrictive you say? Tell that to VK7MO or VK3OE or the hoards of operators playing with WSPR or JT modes exclusively.
Yes, let foundations build their own gear. What a shame they aren't allowed to now. Again, we're dealing with adults with normal levels of comprehension. They can learn and they understand right from wrong. A dirty signal on air would soon be sorted by the band police. I'm sure we can all name at least one advanced operator with terrible operating technique or signal quality/purity let's not blame the F call just because they're new.
The point of all this is to encourage participation and maintain some level of incentive for the three current levels of licensing.
VK4FAUS - Drill some holes in the bucket of bricks to let the water out.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4SMJ - 22-09-2016
VK3ALB Wrote:VK4FAUS - Drill some holes in the bucket of bricks to let the water out.
AH! now I've pondered about my bucket for some years now, and i thought of that. but! it's a gal bucket, if i drill holes in it, it will breech the gal barrier and will start too rust. Now I know those buckets are fairly cheap from bunnings, but my old man was Scottish so i cant go against the pull of DNA and start lashing out on new buckets
VK3ALB, your suggestions are perfectly reasonable and logical, I have no qualms with anything you suggested, but yes I also think it's written in stone now and not much is really going to happen.
My prediction is, 25 watts for Foundation.
Standard will have to do with 100watts but will be given the carrot of the full 6m allocation, and maybe some extra microwave stuff.
Digital for F call.
Standard and full call will be given 60m, and thats about it. That high power trial a few years ago I think scared the powers and i dont think there's a hope is hades we will get much more power for the higher licence classes.
This will placate the cry for more stuff and will show that "yes the gov listens to the masses", and that will be it for the next 10-20 years. As our numbers dwindle we get less and less power to ask for jack, and that will be job done from the Gov's point of view. So in 10-20 years time they can disregard any further request for more power or allocation.
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK3ALB - 22-09-2016
VK4FAUS Wrote:AH! now I've pondered about my bucket for some years now, and i thought of that. but! it's a gal bucket, if i drill holes in it, it will breech the gal barrier and will start too rust. Now I know those buckets are fairly cheap from bunnings, but my old man was Scottish so i cant go against the pull of DNA and start lashing out on new buckets
Well, I used two 3l milk bottle full of water to tension 40 odd metres of wire. They are cheap as chips, never rust, don't need holes in them and I'm keeping them out of land fill. Now please, don't tell me you don't drink milk!?
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK2ZRH - 25-09-2016
For the edification and education of VK4FAUS and others, the latest instalment of "Inside the Licence Conditions Submission" (for want of a better name), is available here (WIA News for Sun, 25 Sep 2016), in text and podcast: wia.org.au/ broadcast
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
Re: Any word on this yet? - VK4SMJ - 29-10-2016
Thanks Roger,
It's like a soapy, cant wait for the next show.