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+--- Thread: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments (/thread-730.html)
AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4ADC - 21-02-2019
The AMC have emailed all WIA assessors who notified them through the WIA/ACMA emails to confirm that that want to be considered for inclusion on a list of AMC assessors for amateur radio licensing activities. The AMC response will not be immediate as they will have to filter through the lists and probably look to see who best matches up with their requirements. Those selected will probably have to be trained in AMC methods and processes too so it will all add to the time before future AR assessments can take place.
I understand that the Deed between the AMC and ACMA has now been signed but some Delegations have to be put in place before they can actually manage the licensing activities.
The good news about it is that something is happening !!!
Hopefully we will be kept in touch with their progress so that more is known about how, when, where and how much things will cost with this new arrangement.
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4WDM - 21-02-2019
(21-02-2019, 11:22 AM)VK4ADC Wrote: The AMC have emailed all WIA assessors who notified them through the WIA/ACMA emails to confirm that that want to be considered for inclusion on a list of AMC assessors for amateur radio licensing activities. The AMC response will not be immediate as they will have to filter through the lists and probably look to see who best matches up with their requirements. Those selected will probably have to be trained in AMC methods and processes too so it will all add to the time before future AR assessments can take place.
I understand that the Deed between the AMC and ACMA has now been signed but some Delegations have to be put in place before they can actually manage the licensing activities.
The good news about it is that something is happening !!!
Hopefully we will be kept in touch with their progress so that more is known about how, when, where and how much things will cost with this new arrangement.
I worked in the university sector for over 30 years and the last part of that was to do with the delivery of "distance learning" programs ranging from undergraduate certificates through to doctorates. All universities have a "teaching and learning committee", or something similar, that rigorously examines any subject, course, or qualification that the university proposes to deliver. That includes the qualifications and experience of all those involved, and the provision of training to ensure that all processes are carried out exactly according to the uni's procedures and protocols.
All this is going to take time.
73
Wayne VK4WM
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK2CSW - 22-02-2019
Maybe because of the industry I am in I am a little jaded about these things.
When the Commonwealth changes providers, such as is being done here, there is always a lag as the new provider comes up to speed. It is what it is. Many have railed against the process but it never changes. No matter what industry or how big your organisation is, the Commonwealth has many such things on the boil and all will be dealt with in time. Delayed AR exams will not strike fear or urgency into the process.
Many times these changes result in the employees (in this case volunteer examiners etc) moving to the new provider with the practical upshot being they get new work shirts. They sit in the same seats and in front of the same computer. The hardest part is learning how the new system operates and how the new company works - the actual work changes little.
This is what is happening here.
As someone who lives through this regularly, all I can offer as advice is go with the flow and try not to get angry that the process seems to take forever. This is not the first time this has happened and nor will it be the last.
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4WDM - 22-02-2019
(22-02-2019, 07:21 AM)VK2CSW Wrote: Maybe because of the industry I am in I am a little jaded about these things.Well said Colin! And don't throw out the old work shirts. Providers get recycled and so do the shirts (provided of course that you still fit them)
When the Commonwealth changes providers, such as is being done here, there is always a lag as the new provider comes up to speed. It is what it is. Many have railed against the process but it never changes. No matter what industry or how big your organisation is, the Commonwealth has many such things on the boil and all will be dealt with in time. Delayed AR exams will not strike fear or urgency into the process.
Many times these changes result in the employees (in this case volunteer examiners etc) moving to the new provider with the practical upshot being they get new work shirts. They sit in the same seats and in front of the same computer. The hardest part is learning how the new system operates and how the new company works - the actual work changes little.
This is what is happening here.
As someone who lives through this regularly, all I can offer as advice is go with the flow and try not to get angry that the process seems to take forever. This is not the first time this has happened and nor will it be the last.
An interesting question is: Why is UNITAS/AMC doing this? One can understand them being involved in maritime licenses because many of their students will need those qualifications as part of their course requirements, but amateur radio? There must be something in it for them.
Wayne VK4WDM
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK6RO - 22-02-2019
All this new system seems much more complicated than when i first got my license.
Exams were held by P&T dept 2 times a year either at state P&T head office in perth or local post office [ we could take it or leave it]
Then wait up to 3 months for the results. [which i did when i did full call at local post office]
Then once we received our certificates we can apply for a callsign with P&Tdept and wait...
I went into the Perth P&T office and they lady showed me a school kids excercise book with a brown paper cover containing all the available callsigns as well as the allocated callsigns. [no computers] and she said take your pick ... so i did...
3 letter full call signs were not available in VK6 at that time, they came in soon after. [all the 2 letter calls had not been allocated and you had to take one]
BUT
I lived more than 160km from a capital city, so i could make an appointment with the dept to sit an exam anytime at the Perth dept office.
I did this for my novice exam.
I sat in a room with a radio inspector at Perth office with nobody else there and did theory, regs and cw .
Now days it looks more complicated to me personally
thank you
graham vk6ro
e&oe
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4ADC - 23-02-2019
( From: WIA NATIONAL NEWS FOR WEEK COMMENCING Feb 24 2019 )
Your WIA has been in contact with the new providers of the AR examination and licence providers and we will be bringing much of the latest to you throughout this news bulletin.
The new provider has published their fee structure, it's on the front page news section of wia.org.au https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20190222-1/index.php
The Australian Maritime College has provided the fee schedule for amateur radio statutory and non-statutory services.
This covers statutory examinations and non-statutory callsign recommendations, recognition of prior learning and re-issuing of certificates.
The WIA has also opened the door to AMC Manager, Martin, to use this WIA News Service to provide you the listener with info coming from AMC.
Direct link to the AMC Fees PDF :
https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20190222-1/documents/Examination%20Fee%20Schedule%202019.pdf
....plus....
"The Australian Maritime College Manager - Office of Maritime Communications thanks the WIA for its support.
"I would be grateful if you could please let your members know that we would ask all former and potential assessors to contact AMC-Amateur Radio email on AMC.AR@utas.edu.au to register your interest. We look forward to working together for the good of the Hobby.
Best wishes,
Martin Crees-Morris
Manager – AMC Amateur Radio
Australian Maritime College
University of Tasmania.
"
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4YE - 03-03-2019
Fellow Amateurs,
Like most former WIA Assessors, I have been contacted by the AMC with the intention of having me come on board and invigilate their examinations. I respectfully declined the offer. Reproduced below are a set of reasons I have given to Martin Crees-Morris, and I strongly suspect many other past Assessors would share similar views.
Chris Bourke
VK4YE
Martin,
I have given serious consideration to your offer of registering as an invigilator of Amateur Radio assessments, but have now concluded that it is not possible under current conditions.
Let me explain ......
This is my 50th year as a licenced Amateur Radio operator and I have been accredited with the WIA exam service since 1997. The ACMA outsourced its examination service to the WIA in 2009, and in readiness for implementing this, I completed training as an Assessor in 2008. For in excess of twenty years I have run classes and assessments for well in excess of one hundred candidates, both new entrants to the hobby and for those seeking to upgrade their licences. While I have been uncomfortable with the high financial hurdle the ACMA imposed on the WIA in its delegation of examination functions back in 2009, I grudgingly accepted that the imposed Cost Recovery Charges (done for the purpose of allowing competitive tenders from other than the low cost base of the WIA), were kept in-house and ultimately benefited members of the Amateur Radio fraternity.
Far more enlightened countries such as New Zealand, the USA, Canada and the UK have government agencies that have devolved the assessments to the respective national representative for their Amateur Radio members - ARRL, RSGB, NZART etc etc. This has resulted in very much reduced assessment imposts - eg in New Zealand there is simply one exam composed of 60 questions drawn from a 600 question public domain data base - and the examination fee is a mere NZ$5.00! Our ACMA is still plodding along in legacy mode, requiring separate assessments for both theory and regulations (Standard and Advanced grades). Only the Foundation assessment has a combined theory/regulations format.
Amateur Radio operators ought not be seen as milch cows for the Federal Government nor for boosting the bottom line of external service providers who have no close association or empathy with the hobby. And the operative word here is "hobby". These assessments are not for the purpose of validating trade or vocational qualifications, but simply to verify a candidate possesses a minimum knowledge set and operational skills relevant to the hobby of Amateur Radio. In this context, the ACMA's tender option of three alternate methods of providing assessments was nothing more than a Hobson's Choice. All were defective in one or more aspects and in a relative sense only Option 1 was the least unpalatable. Clearly, by default, it had to be the one selected. Furthermore, the requirement that a winning tenderer must apply Cost Recovery Charges in providing the service ensured that non Amateur related providers could tender for a contract, and if successful, enjoy a nice income stream compared to what could otherwise be provided at very nominal cost by volunteer assessors, which is the system currently applied very successfully in the aforementioned countries.
From my reading of the AMC Examination Fee Schedule for 2019, and comparing it to the WIA proposed Cost Recovery schedule in their tender, I am genuinely horrified at the obscene impost the examinees will have to endure. For example, it will now be a fixed $90 per assessment, versus say (proposed by the WIA) $27 for a Foundation Assessment where the candidate is under 25 years of age. This underscores the disparity of the two organisations - one which by its charter is set up to " promote, advance and represent in any way it thinks fit Amateur Radio and the interests of Radio Amateurs ", while the other quite clearly has no other purpose than gouge funds from candidates without regard to any negative effect of the impost.
To me, the AMC's proposal that the pool of former WIA accredited Assessors will become mere invigilators and their voluntary donation of time and freely given labour serving to fatten the AMC bottom line is morally indefensible. I foresee a marked reduction in applicants prepared to mount the artificial financial hurdle to enter the hobby, or progress within it. Nothing positive for the hobby of Amateur Radio has come out of AMC winning the tender, and I certainly do not wish to be part of an inevitable retrograde outcome.
Regards,
Chris Bourke VK4YE
BA (Mathematics) Dip Ed.
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4ADC - 03-03-2019
Chris
I agree with your comments about costs entirely. I made the same type of point in my submission to the ACMA last year. The fees for assessment are far too high given the that that assessors are actually doing the processes for free..
Maybe the $$90 fee would be ok if it covered ALL of the assessments undertaken by a candidate on a specified date - even if that comprised all theory, regs and pracs attempted. The AMC has indicated that assessors cannot hold papers just-in-case but that the ones required for a candidate have to be specifically ordered no more than 14 days beforehand. Maybe this is short-term pending moving to online assessments - they haven't said much as yet.
My completing the AMC application is pending an adjustment to their form, as notified to the AMC back on the 26th Feb, but as yet a revised form has not been received. I emailed Martin the following detail:
"The Assessor application form refers to in part B : “B—Applicant Agreement to abide by the Invigilator Guidelines issued by the AMC—” where the document you sent is titled “AMC – Amateur Radio Assessor Guidelines”. The titles are different and while an assessor might be an invigilator, the reverse is not necessarily true.
Agreeing to non-existent Invigilator Guidelines, while easily mistaken, is a bit risky legally.
It depends on whether the applicant actually reads the paperwork or just skims it thinking it correct before signing it."
Apart from that the weblink to the Assessor/Invigilator document did not exist so I pointed that out too.
I understand that they are probably working under pressure to get things in place but it does not excuse simple errors in documentation. Someone there probably proofed the form and read what they expected to read instead of what it should have read.
I don't want to add to any possible profit they might make either but, at the same time, I would like to be able to provide an accessible source for any local would-be amateurs to do their assessments. That is the reason I plan continuing being an assessor under the AMC umbrella - provided they accept me of course.
Doug VK4ADC
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4SMJ - 03-03-2019
This is the very reason i have not upgraded my licence.
Whilst it is a rather restraining imposition to remain as a foundation licence holder, the cost of upgrading just doesn't equal the worth of what you gain.
And it seems the cost has gone up! if this is so, it's a very disappointing outcome, and can't possibly be to the advantage of the hobby.
But I've recently discovered network radio so maybe not an issue anyway.
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4ADC - 07-03-2019
The AMC finally have a valid weblink to their AR details :
http://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio
Their payments option for AR is working - gotta make sure you can take the punter's money - before everything else is in place. https://payments.utas.edu.au/OneStopWeb/AMCPayments/tran?UDS_ACTION=DEFAULT&UDS_ACTION_DATA=ZVpdckFMWAZOKCAERUJDAltVQnRIXzAbWEZHXnNHVTZ8NS5U
I haven't yet been advised of, or received, a revised Assessor Application form (my post - 2 earlier). Given last Tuesday's response (26Feb) of "Many thanks for the feedback Doug – we will amend asap. Martin", they must either have an abundance of applications bearing invalid details - or - don't need anyone.
We are now a month "in" from the end of the WIA services and nothing much is being made public.
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK4ADC - 29-03-2019
From text edition for Mar 31 2019 - VK NATIONAL NEWS BROADCAST ON VK1WIA : http://www.wia.org.au/members/broadcast/wianews/
Also in MP3 edition of news available at: http://www.wia-files.com/podcast/wianews-2019-03-31.mp3
DISCUSSION POINT:-
Hello, Im Geoff Emery, VK4ZPP, and I've been thinking.
One of the much awaited events occurred, this past week, in VK3. Assessment packs were received from AMC and the first trials of the new system were run on the same Monday night. There has been more words expended than in the abridged version of War and Peace on the topic of exams and the recommencement and slowly the deal seems to be coming together. I note that some people are claiming that they are not receiving a response to their applications to become AMC assessors after having filled that role with the WIA.
None the less, there is a list of available assessors on the AMC amateur radio web site with more names to come. There is some confusion amongst people who were preparing for their licence tests as to whether the new question banks and papers will be vastly different to what they expected under the old regime. As time goes on, many of these questions will be answered . The one issue that is of concern to many is the new requirement for only one person to invigilate ham radio assessments. In this age of needing to hold working with children cards and claims by the MeToo movement, it seems a valid point to protect all parties who will spend an hour or two in a closed environment. Similarly, there seems to be some concern that claims of historical cheating, could become a reality under these same circumstances. For these reasons, two assessors were present during the historic process in Victoria. The situation needs some solid thought.
Im Geoff Emery and thats what I think....how about you?
(extracted from this weeks qnews)
http://www.amc.edu.au/industry/amateur-radio/assessors
RE: AMC : Amateur Radio Assessments - VK3RX - 29-03-2019
Hmm - a bit OT but it doesn't appear the AMC have made any attempt to protect those email addresses from web crawlers.