WIA and the Google Suite

[VK2CSW]

A couple of weeks ago I received an email from the WIA indicating that they would be moving their email redirection service to a Google service.  For those who are unaware, the WIA has provided a service where members of the WIA could get a @wia.org.au email address that forwarded mail to the users actual mailbox.

For reasons unexplained the WIA has decided to outsource this service to Google, with the kicker being that the member will also be offered a package including G-Mail, Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Drive and other applications in the Google portfolio.

As many would be aware Google makes its money through advertising and data harvesting.  Data harvesting being the most lucrative as it drives advertising revenues.

The WIA's decision to push this service, without any consultation with the membership, concerns me as I do not believe this is  a fair trade off - that is to say sacrificing yet another slice of privacy to Google's data warehouse to get an email address.

I have had correspondence with the WIA's IT folk about this and it appears that it will be all or nothing - accept the Google Suite or lose the redirection.  This will happen mid-March.  This gives those who 'opt-out' very little time to rearrange all of their email address business.

The value proposition for retaining my membership with the WIA is very finely balanced.  The magazine is awful, customer service is poor and the internal ructions which have consumed the organisation are very much negatives.  Their advocacy and representation to government and international boards is important.  The provision of the email redirection service is what has tipped me over the line to renew my membership.

Now that that very service is to become yet another insidious intrusion by Google, I am struggling to justify the outlay.

Am I alone in this?

Are others concerned by this action?

(I will be cross posting this to another forum to gather a wider range of opinions)

[VK4ADC]

Colin

I, like all other WIA members, received that same email. It made me stop and think "why?".

Personally I only use my WIA email redirection for the weekly news email-out as I have my own email accounts due to my web hosting options but I can see your point.  I get enough what-I-will-call-SPAM when I browse to a web page that involves advertising that I sometimes just close that browser page.  I know it is targetted advertising but what I look for elsewhere on the web should not impinge on what I do when visiting another site.  It is a money game paid for by advertisers who want to recoup via sales. Even so, it is extremely annoying. If I kill all cookies then I can fix "it" but that also inhibits visiting some sites and also have the computer remember login info, like for this forum.

Yesterday I went looking for some info on halo antennas. Google results put me in the direction of some articles but then I was faced with adverts about something that I had searched for the previous day and that I was finished with. Totally annoying.

The G-suite is ok for some but I don't need to share raw documents with others as I am not involved in collaborations and am no longer in any business environment.  

To quote Google :  G Suite: Collaboration & Productivity Apps for Business

G-Suite comprises Gmail, Hangouts, Calendar, and Google+ for communication; Drive for storage; Docs, Sheets, Slides, Forms, and Sites for collaboration; and, depending on the plan, an Admin panel and Vault for managing users and the services.

Note that I have underlined Business.

Do I want or need any of these facilities ? No, not even Drive :  I take care of my own backup / storage where no one else can get at the files.

I don't always have a "connected" environment.  I do a lot of non-web time so the apps on my Windows device get used with local documents, files etc..  When we travel, USB sticks and a 2TB pocket HDD are used for backup. 

I suspect too many people are relying too much just on "cloud computing".  There are other methods for collaboration without relying on 'clouds'.
If the cloud goes 'down' then there goes your data. After all, it is only a geographically separated set of computers with disks to store data. A major operating system "issue/hack" might be all it takes.
If some hacker gets an entryway open in the cloud then your data is no longer secure. 
If the WWW has a major fault can you still get at your data ??  
You say it can't actually happen... but it could. All too easily I suspect.

The WIA records will be somewhere in the 'cloud'. Will that financial and contact information be secure ? 
Your credit card info that you paid your WIA subs with - will that always be secure ?
No guarantees are given.. only assumed. 
 
After all hackers are smart and if they direct their attention somewhere then vulnerabilities WILL be found.
It only takes a break into one of the authorised computers to gain access to the cloud data, so if that happens to be the President's PC (assuming that has access to all areas), it is literally open slather. If we go on to assume that there will be multiple authorised PCs and they all form a possible entry point, the risks get higher and higher that the cloud data will be insecure.

Back to the email account, Colin.  If the only reason you belong to the WIA is an email address to keep your basic email address anonymous then you shouldn't renew.  I have been a WIA member since about 1964, with a break of a few years around the 1990s when I was inactive due to work pressures, and I don't renew each year to have a WIA email address. I look at what they are doing for AR in Australia as an overall task - and that is why I continue as a member. Their work is important as they make representations to bodies, the ACMA included, to help us retain, if not expand, the frequencies available to the amateur service in Australia. New emission mode approvals and practices don't happen without that representation. Every organisation has people with differing views ('ructions' happen as a result) but that doesn't make the organisation bad or wrong. There is something you can do to set the ship on a better course : volunteer.

If you don't want to renew then there are a number of free email forwarding services available on the web that you can pick from.  I will make you a special offer : how does your callsign at ahrdf.net sound ?? Would that do in lieu ?

PM me if you want to take up my offer.

Doug VK4ADC

[VK3RX]

I sent an email to the WIA President asking the same question - will the redirector service remain without any Google involvement.

Last year I went through a lengthy exercise changing email address due to a change of provider, and I took the opportunity to use the WIA address for most, to prevent having to do the same again. I don't use gmail, because I don't like the idea of all my mail going through their system.

The WIA needs to clarify the situation re the redirector service, and if what we've been told is correct, have a re-think.

Fortunately I'm also a member of the ARRL and AMSAT, both of which allso offer a no-frills redirection service.

I'm a member of the WIA for many reasons, and won't be dumping membership because of the lack of a redirection service.

[VK4BLP]

I only used it because I had to be a WIA member to be an assessor, so took advantage of it, but since I no longer have to be a member I won't renew next month.

But to change from a simple redirect, to get lumped in to a google business 'thingum', even if I was a member, I'd soon lose my callsign@wia.org.au email address.

[VK2CSW]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the kind offer. A further complication arrived today in that our cable provider (Optus) has decided to wind down the cable service now that the lesser NBN service is available. So a change of providers and therefore a change of email address is now likely, anyway.

Which makes it all the more of a pity that the redirection service is also being discontinued, as this was a method to avoid all the messiness.

Damien,

I would be interested to hear if you get a reply from the Prez. My communications with the new outsourced IT mob WIA are using, have indicated that the redirection will cease mid-March unless you accept the Google model.

As for renewing with the WIA the jury is still out on that.

[VK4ADC]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the kind offer.  A further complication arrived today in that our cable provider (Optus) has decided to wind down the cable service now that the lesser NBN service is available.  So a change of providers and therefore a change of email address is now likely, anyway.

Colin

The thing about a mail forwarding system is that provided the destination email address is known then the forward can be set up on the mail server and it just stays in place. The 'public' email address then stays static regardless of your (dynamic) actual address. That dynamic detail is only as difficult as notifying the host that you need to update your forwarding destination. 

One issue that I have here is that my NBN provider does NOT provide for email boxes at all so I am forced elsewhere for an email address anyway.  They used to under ADSL but the NBN update here ended that option so check the possible NBN provider's fine print before signing on the dotted line.

I think this all comes into play because the WIA don't want to host a web/mail server anymore. It costs for power, effort, updating, software maintenance, forwarding/account creation and doing the move to the Google G-Suite displaces some of the effort - despite what it costs the WIA (/members) annually for the Google facility.  
Do we know how much it will cost ? No.     Will we ?? Unlikely.

Anyway the offer stands.

Doug

[VK5TM]

Do we know how much it will cost ? No.     Will we ?? Unlikely.

Unless a "special" deal has been done, the cost was publicly visible on the G-Suite site as of a few days ago (I'm talking normal cost, not WIA in particular cost).

So you can add a fair margin for the IT outfits markup as well - that will be the unknown amount unless it is specifically itemised in the public accounts of the WIA.

[VK4ADC]

Terry

Thanks for the heads-up. A quick search reveals lots of info.

From : https://gsuite.google.com.au/intl/en_au/pricing.html

Basic $AUD5/user/month.
Business $AUD10/user/month.

So if the takeup by WIA members totalled 5000 (most of us - after all it is effectively free to the  WIA member/end user so why not), that becomes..

$25000/month for Basic, $300K per annum.
$50000/month for Business, $600K per annum.

I don't think they will get that large a takeup but that is what it could cost.  
IT management fees on top ??

You can run a web / mail server for a small fraction of that, a new server in a datacentre, maintenance, internet linking fees.

So one has to ask "who made this G-Suite decision" and "should they have made the decision to take this on without consulting the general WIA membership" in view of the possible escalation of costs ?

Comments please.

[VK2CSW]

I received this from Aidan Mountford on behalf of the WIA President (I had emailed the Prez directly on this matter):

Colin,

I apologise if there has been any miscommunication - I will review this communication with the IT group.

With respect to the email redirection service, this is not being discontinued.  All existing redirections will continue
to work.  The key thing that is changing is that for those who elect to participate, GSuite will be available (and will
be the default on a go forward basis for new members)  

With respect to the security and privacy of data from gMail, we initially shared your concerns and we agree that the
standard "gmail" service that is "free" has terms and conditions that are less than attractive.

The service being deployed by the WIA is not the standard gmail service - It is googles business grade product that
is used by corporations and governments globally.   The terms and conditions relating to the use of this product are
well documented,  but, in summary the matters that make the "free" gmail service unsuitable are not matters of
concern in the corporate product.

If this is not the "free" product, it must cost money - which might then lead you to ask "how is this being funded".  
Over the past 12 months the team has put significant effort into starting to attract sponsorship for the WIA to relieve pressure
on members funds.   Google has come forward with a very generous series of donations - this is one facet of that
agreement.

If you would like to understand the broader terms under which this is provided please review the link below:
https://gsuite.google.com.au/intl/en_au/...ta-centers

Kind regards,

It was in response to this:

Dear Justin,


I am writing to you to express my disappointment at the imminent removal of the WIA email redirection service.

I have been advised by your "IT Team" that as of mid-March that as I am unwilling to accept the Google Suite option that the redirection service will be discontinued.

To be honest, I am appalled at this turn of events and even more astonished that technical people would even countenance allowing Google access to the institutes data and to process member's emails.

I don't wish to sound condescending, but I still need to ask - You do realise that Google's primary income streams are from on selling data they harvest via their various systems?

The value proposition for retaining my membership with the WIA is very finely balanced. The magazine is awful, customer service is poor and the internal ructions which have consumed the organisation are very much negatives. Your advocacy and representation to government and international boards is important.

The provision of the email redirection service is what has tipped me over the line to renew my membership each year. Without that I struggle to see a real value.

The bundling of Google Suite, I assume is intended as a value add, does not go into the positive column, it is a very definite negative.

I respectfully ask that the board reflect on the decision to bundle the Google Suite and the decision to force members to have their emails handled by Google.

It seems the WIA are on a special deal for Google Suite.

[VK3RX]

With respect to the email redirection service, this is not being discontinued.  All existing redirections will continue
to work.  The key thing that is changing is that for those who elect to participate,

For me - and probably many others - these are the key statements.

Thanks for seeking the clarification, Colin.